One subject that is pretty obscure, possibly also due to the difficulty on finding reliable sources and archaelogical materials is how martial arts were taught during the Sengoku period. We know a lot about Doujos, schools etc. during the Edo period but so little about earlier centuries and especially during the height of the samurai as "true" warriors waging war.
I hope this will change due to scholarly efforts or even a "fortuitous" discovery. In the meantime perhaps a quote from a videogame (Elder Scroll Oblivion) might well describe what used to happen: "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors"
A subject I am very interested in as well. John Rogers thesis Development of the Military Profession in Tokugawa Japan addresses it (he goes in depth into Itto-ryu and gunnery schools), Cameron Hurst in Armed Martial Arts of Japan, Alex Bennett alludes some as well in his Kendo History of the Sword, as do what we know of some of the curricula - Takeuchi-ryu for instance going from five kata to 100s for example. But still very general. Seems at the beginning of Tokugawa there were not a lot of techniques taught, they were mostly principle based, and instruction was highly individualistic over short periods of time. This would actually be quite different from later where numbers of kata and licenses expanded considerably, and from the 1800s where some Edo dojo as Chris describes had thousands of pupils and training was mostly shiai. .......I should note these are all in English, but the authors are scholars and their research is based on Japanese sources and primary documents.
Some great sources there, Chris, thank you! Indeed, many of the schools incorporated techniques from other schools, and in most cases changed the name, or tweaked the waza to make it "original". Always an interesting topc.
Something else I am intrigued with.... we now know that even the oldest ryu did not have much to do with battlefield training, from the emphasis on the sword in many of them, lack of group tactics, (most, not all, and recreation of older schools for group archery or gunnery is a question here)and various other reasons. Friday has probably addressed that best, as well as the battle reports we know from Conlan's research. Mark Hague's recent works on Itto-ryu contain some fascinating material on tonomo, teachings "outside" of actual physical techniques, often including things like overall life advice, mindset, strategy, tactics, general teachings of the time, etc. What is very interesting to me is the presence of things like how to deal with ambushes by multiple attackers, going through doorways, how to secure your campsite to keep from being snuck up on, how to set up a mosquito net in case you are ambushed when underneath it, how to tie off doors, how to capture armed barricaded people,(even Musashi writes of capture techniques (torite) for people "holed up.") and so on. It seems that many ryuha, rather than being a general "senjojutsu" (battlefield skills) were actually "musha shugyo jutsu" - skills not just for defeating rivals in challenges and duels, but how to keep from being ambushed and murdered by the followers of people you defeated, not to mention typical brigands and other ne-er do wells on the road, and how to manage some criminal situations when you were just passing through and called on to help, or were dispatched by the local lord to do so (as in the well known examples of Kamiizumi and Ono Tadaaki). To me its like they hit those bases more than simply dueling or gekken fighting skills.
I do agree with you. Loved your reasoning - It seems that many ryuha, rather than being a general "senjojutsu" (battlefield skills) were actually "musha shugyo jutsu" - skills not just for defeating rivals in challenges and duels, but how to keep from being ambushed and murdered by the followers of people you defeated, .... 100% agreed! Considering that swords only accounted for 4% of Sengoku period battlefield deaths, the use of the sword was no doubt less than is believed, less than portrayed in TV and movies. Incidentally, the story of Kamiizumi managing a criminal situation has been covered on this site.
One subject that is pretty obscure, possibly also due to the difficulty on finding reliable sources and archaelogical materials is how martial arts were taught during the Sengoku period. We know a lot about Doujos, schools etc. during the Edo period but so little about earlier centuries and especially during the height of the samurai as "true" warriors waging war.
I hope this will change due to scholarly efforts or even a "fortuitous" discovery. In the meantime perhaps a quote from a videogame (Elder Scroll Oblivion) might well describe what used to happen: "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors"
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors"...I like that!
A subject I am very interested in as well. John Rogers thesis Development of the Military Profession in Tokugawa Japan addresses it (he goes in depth into Itto-ryu and gunnery schools), Cameron Hurst in Armed Martial Arts of Japan, Alex Bennett alludes some as well in his Kendo History of the Sword, as do what we know of some of the curricula - Takeuchi-ryu for instance going from five kata to 100s for example. But still very general. Seems at the beginning of Tokugawa there were not a lot of techniques taught, they were mostly principle based, and instruction was highly individualistic over short periods of time. This would actually be quite different from later where numbers of kata and licenses expanded considerably, and from the 1800s where some Edo dojo as Chris describes had thousands of pupils and training was mostly shiai. .......I should note these are all in English, but the authors are scholars and their research is based on Japanese sources and primary documents.
Some great sources there, Chris, thank you! Indeed, many of the schools incorporated techniques from other schools, and in most cases changed the name, or tweaked the waza to make it "original". Always an interesting topc.
Wow did not expect such an insightful reply. Thank you so much.
Something else I am intrigued with.... we now know that even the oldest ryu did not have much to do with battlefield training, from the emphasis on the sword in many of them, lack of group tactics, (most, not all, and recreation of older schools for group archery or gunnery is a question here)and various other reasons. Friday has probably addressed that best, as well as the battle reports we know from Conlan's research. Mark Hague's recent works on Itto-ryu contain some fascinating material on tonomo, teachings "outside" of actual physical techniques, often including things like overall life advice, mindset, strategy, tactics, general teachings of the time, etc. What is very interesting to me is the presence of things like how to deal with ambushes by multiple attackers, going through doorways, how to secure your campsite to keep from being snuck up on, how to set up a mosquito net in case you are ambushed when underneath it, how to tie off doors, how to capture armed barricaded people,(even Musashi writes of capture techniques (torite) for people "holed up.") and so on. It seems that many ryuha, rather than being a general "senjojutsu" (battlefield skills) were actually "musha shugyo jutsu" - skills not just for defeating rivals in challenges and duels, but how to keep from being ambushed and murdered by the followers of people you defeated, not to mention typical brigands and other ne-er do wells on the road, and how to manage some criminal situations when you were just passing through and called on to help, or were dispatched by the local lord to do so (as in the well known examples of Kamiizumi and Ono Tadaaki). To me its like they hit those bases more than simply dueling or gekken fighting skills.
I do agree with you. Loved your reasoning - It seems that many ryuha, rather than being a general "senjojutsu" (battlefield skills) were actually "musha shugyo jutsu" - skills not just for defeating rivals in challenges and duels, but how to keep from being ambushed and murdered by the followers of people you defeated, .... 100% agreed! Considering that swords only accounted for 4% of Sengoku period battlefield deaths, the use of the sword was no doubt less than is believed, less than portrayed in TV and movies. Incidentally, the story of Kamiizumi managing a criminal situation has been covered on this site.